Curse

Eet GnomeSmasher · Nov 27, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

The GWars team has fallen prey to 'The Everquest Syndrome'. This is when a group of developers become obsessed with implementing changes designed to disrupt the playstyle of the people who play their game, instead of coding changes that improve the game's playability.

Right. They purposely make the game worse to lose more customers. Whether or not you want to agree that the changes were for the good of the game, it's pretty ridiculous and childish to say that they purposely are trying to make their players unhappy. Got any more brilliant insights?

Zobi · Nov 27, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

It is interesting to note also that I have yet to see a Mesmer whine that their "Uber Chaos Storm" has been nerfed!

Mobs in UW also seem to run away from traps more often than they did prior ro this patch, yet you don't see Rangers spitting their dummies out!

Sagius Truthbarron · Nov 27, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

The AI is not nearly as sensitive as some would scream. Someone said that Zealot's Fire gets the enemy flying away from you. An utter lie. That's not even an AoE spell.

It takes alot to get the enemy constantly moving. If you want to nuke get someone using Ice spells, Ward Against Foes or Muddy Terrain. At the very least, take something that cripples like Pin Down.

People are still talking about this? It will not be changed back and the changes make the game alot better. It's funny that everyone was wanting to nerf IWAY becuase it's so common, but cryed their eyes out when THN (Tank Healer Nuke/ Hulk Smash) got it instead.

I don't think anyone ever liked THN/Hulk Smash. Especially not Mesmers, Necromancers, Rangers, non-fire Elemenetalists, smiters, and everyone else that didn't fit into that build.

Seriously, 29 pages. It's not going to be reverted. There's not much of an out-cry over it. And if it ever hit gaming headlines that tons of people were protesting in outrage the fact that the AI in the game walks out of the way of Area of Affect spells, the entire gaming world would get a good laugh.

I can see the marching lines now. "WE WANT WORSE AI! WE WANT WORSE AI!"

When I first saw the update, before I even saw this thread, I thought "Nice, they fixed the AI!"

Vorlin · Nov 28, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Not much of an outcry? Funny, guess you missed the 29 -pages- of outcry in this thread alone.

AoE spells were balanced based on creatures that didn't flee from them, to implement fleeing without rebalancing these spells is idiotic at best.

And no, I'm not a farmer, and if I was, so what? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Y'all can be as fanboy as you want, that's fine, just remember to suck it up when it's your character that winds up on the chopping block. And it will.

And no, I don't think the GWars team is trying to purposefully alienate their customer base, but that's exactly what they are accomplishing, whether that's their intent is irrelevant. Verant had the same problem, and had the same defending fanboys as you see here, but eventually they learned their lesson as they watched their players migrate to other games.

I seriously doubt if I'm the only one who no longer has any intent on purchasing the GWars expansion (barring some future change of heart by the GWars implementors). And considering that a few months ago this was a 'must buy' for me, that can't be good news. Considering they have no monthly fees it's pretty important that they sell expansions.

Gotta love the no-fee, though. It's worked out exactly like I thought it would: by not having paid a fee all these months I have much less of a feeling of being screwed over then I would have otherwise.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Y'all can be as fanboy as you want, that's fine, just remember to suck it up when it's your character that winds up on the chopping block. And it will.

Fanboy? I think you're being rather petty to dismiss people that are trying to put the other side of the argument forward in that manner. It's just a game - why are you getting so stressed about it?

If my character build was affected I'd come up with a new one - that's what the desert NPCs are for.

Quote:

I seriously doubt if I'm the only one who no longer has any intent on purchasing the GWars expansion (barring some future change of heart by the GWars implementors). And considering that a few months ago this was a 'must buy' for me, that can't be good news. Considering they have no monthly fees it's pretty important that they sell expansions.

So, what, you're going to boycott the expansion because AoE was modified? Shouldn't you actually wait to see what it's like first and then decide? No one would want to think that you were throwing your toys out of the pram.

aron searle · Nov 28, 2005, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

The AI is not nearly as sensitive as some would scream. Someone said that Zealot's Fire gets the enemy flying away from you. An utter lie. That's not even an AoE spell.

I took out my monk with zealots as my only weopon, they do sometimes run from it. If you fire it off once its no problem, but if you keep firing it off they seem to think its an AoE and run.

I have not tested this for about 2 weeks(after the 11th nov update), but was true at the time, and i have seen no updates since.

Vorlin · Nov 28, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

So, what, you're going to boycott the expansion because AoE was modified? Shouldn't you actually wait to see what it's like first and then decide? No one would want to think that you were throwing your toys out of the pram.

Boycott is too fancy a term, I'm just not going to buy it until/unless I see some sign that the GWars team has abandoned its philosophy of "If anyone is getting a lot of mileage out of something it needs to be nerfed".

And it's not -just- because of the AoE nerf (and that's what it is, people can call it an AI improvement if that makes it easier to swallow), it's because of a game-long history of non-stop nerfing. Read the histories of all the patches and keep track of which changes screw players and which ones enhance gameplay and you'll see an incredibly lopsided score for the 'screw players' side.

Where are the enhanced item drops we were promised -months- ago? Where is the better economy? Where is the better trade system? Three things that players have been asking for for months now and any/all of the three would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing GWars, yet apparently the GWars team doesn't see fit to spend any time on this, preferring instead to chase bots and farmers (both of which are only a problem for people who can't stand someone doing what they think shouldn't be done) with half-thought out changes that screw up many other people as well.

As to buying Chapter 2 'on spec', you can forget that. I don't reward companies who actively work against my interests with my money. Anyone who wants GWars to change and yet buys Chapter 2 is shooting themselves in the foot. But then, addicts are prone to do that.

rokashan · Nov 28, 2005, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Alright, heres the deal.

I've been playing GW since April 29th. At first, I found the game lacked polish, but after only a few weeks, that was smoothed out, and I began to enjoy playing. Another month or so later, and I had beaten the game with 3 characters. Every quest in the game, every mission and bonus, I'd even explored EVERY area on the map.

What was there left to do? The answer for me was farming. Solo at the griffs, with a 5 man team in SF, or with my guild in UW and FoW. My aim was not to make money, I gave away most of the items I found. My aim was to have fun.

After beating the game 3 times, I didn't want to make another PvE character, and as an avid hater of PvP, that aspect of the game has never, and will never, be part of my play.

For 4 months I was happy in this game, then suddenly, I log on, head out for a griff run, and... WTF? they run away when I cyclone axe them? So I check the GW site, I check the forums, thinking this may be some bug... But no, this is casued BY ANET! Imagine my outrage.

So now I sit here, thinking to myself "I quit playing WoW for THIS?"

I have not logged onto my character since November 12th, and I very highly doubt I'll ever be logging on again.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokashan

After beating the game 3 times, I didn't want to make another PvE character, and as an avid hater of PvP, that aspect of the game has never, and will never, be part of my play.

Well that's unfortunate given that the game is called GUILD Wars and not "Solo Wars", "farming wars", "Tyria Wars", etc. I want there to be lots more PvE play, but how much can we expect to get as much as there is in WoW given that the idea behind GW is that you don't pay to play each month. Those guys make so much money they can keep introducing new things in all of the time.

Whereas Anet don't have shed loads of cash rolling in every single month, so they have to be a little more conservative with their expenditure. Perhaps the future of GW after Chapter 2 will be more updates (bigger than SF but smaller than a chapter) - some free, some not. But certainly I would agree that waiting as long between Chapters 1 & 2 for the third optional-payed upgrade could probably deal a mortal blow to GW. There will have to be more content added on more frequently after C.2.

Quote:

So now I sit here, thinking to myself "I quit playing WoW for THIS?"

You made a one-off payment to play GW. Most solo RPGs aren't as long as GW, have as good graphics, etc. Even if you don't want to keep playing, it was not a bad investment - it was something different.

rokashan · Nov 28, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Something different, yes. After all the hype I read about this, after seeing results from play tests, spec sheets about game dynamics, etc, i was ecxited about this game, and as soon as it came out I jumped on it.

Now, however, the aspects of the game I found enjoyable, are no longer performable the was I did them for months.

And as for you thumpers that claim "PvP is 90% of the game" I personally and whole heartedly disagree. I've played for more than 6 months and never done any pvp. Using your analogy, I need to spend what.... 16 months doing nothing but pvp now to "balance" it out?

One of the selling points that convinced me to buy GW in the first place was the "play the game your way" attitude. I am almost sure it says somewhere on the retail box something about having the ability to play the game your way.

I can not, as of now, play the game "my way" becasue of this update. Thet have taken the game, shined it up quite nicely with hype and empty promises, and shoved it down our collective throats saying "you will enjoy it".

Well, far from enjoying it, this has left a rather sour taste in my mouth, and I'll be living on Saturn before I but another title that Anet or NCsoft had any part in, becasue it really just isn't worth the dent in my wallet.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokashan

And as for you thumpers that claim "PvP is 90% of the game" I personally and whole heartedly disagree. I've played for more than 6 months and never done any pvp. Using your analogy, I need to spend what.... 16 months doing nothing but pvp now to "balance" it out?

I have never said it was 90% of the game - that's ridiculous. But PvP is important. If you don't like it, then inevitably the game will get boring. I've said it already - ANet don't have the money to roll out extra content like in WoW.

Also what is it with you and the money for GW? It cost about £17 on play.com. That's only about 3 months of WoW. The two don't compare. The fees for WoW are what dissuaded me from taking it up - I would have spent $50 already on WoW this year, or $120 each calendar year.

Hand Grenade · Nov 28, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I thought it was a good patch, it looked at some problems and some things that were a bit overpowered and just reworked them a little bit instead of completely taking them out of balance.

Vorlin · Nov 28, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Takeko, your replies aren't making any sense. He wasn't bored with GWars -until- ANet screwed up what he enjoyed about the game. If it wasn't for that patch he'd be playing right now. He wasn't posting demanding extra content, he was posting about why he wasn't playing anymore thanks to the latest nerf.

And for those who aren't looking at the poll results, less than 1 person in 5 likes this change. This is what ANet spends its limited resources on, making changes that 80% of the people either don't care about or actively hate. That's a heck of a long way from being responsive to your customer base. They are clearly chasing their own agenda instead of focusing on making their customers happy, and anyone who knows anything about business can tell you that's a great recipe for eventual failure (no matter how strong you start out).

ANet can't beat WoW in quantity, so it has to win in the arena of quality, and quality is all about gameplay (not realism, not a company's vision). To paraphrase: if you have gameplay, they will come. And the converse is true: if you lose it, they will leave.

Loviatar · Nov 28, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

ANet can't beat WoW in quantity, so it has to win in the arena of quality, and quality is all about gameplay (not realism, not a company's vision). To paraphrase: if you have gameplay, they will come. And the converse is true: if you lose it, they will leave.

first to make one thing clear.

i do not/will not pvp.

i am PVE to the core and never been accused of being a fanboy.

rokashan got about 6 months of fun before he decided to quit after his 4 month favorite farm build got nerfed. HE GOT HIS MONEYS WORTH OF FUN

you wont be back unless they bring out the glory days of the past for you (wont happen)

you consider one poll to be definitive (i know that GWONLINE and TGH have similar polls and bitch threads) but they do not represent anything more than a tiny fraction that visit boards and post and even here when you add everything up more than 60% like it or will accept it

they are shaking out the extreams of all types including wowniks and when chapter 2 comes out you can watch the sales keep going up and wonder what all those people buying it see that you are missing.

one more buyer of chapter 2 as soon as i can preorder it.

OH MY MAIN IS A PYROMANCER SO DONT SAY I DONT FEEL THE PAIN

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Takeko, your replies aren't making any sense. He wasn't bored with GWars -until- ANet screwed up what he enjoyed about the game. If it wasn't for that patch he'd be playing right now. He wasn't posting demanding extra content, he was posting about why he wasn't playing anymore thanks to the latest nerf.

Vorlin, you've failed to see that he resorted to farming because he'd done everything else. That to me is a sign that someone is severely bored but doesnt want to let go. Farming is no way as fun as doing a quest/mission or PvP. If all there is left for you in a game is farming, you should either:

a) Try and find something else to do (PvP/GvG?)
b) Put it aside (and perhaps wait for Chapter 2)

Quote:

And for those who aren't looking at the poll results, less than 1 person in 5 likes this change.

If you look at the poll, people are actually split between liking the patch (and perhaps wanting it to be improved) and not liking it (though some will accept it). A minority of 34% of people like yourself "hate it" and won't accept it at all. The rest either support it, or will accept it.

Also as Lovi said, this poll is far from conclusive and not automatically reflective of the entire community.

Plus I found your comments about botters being "ok" disgraceful. You're saying that there's nothing wrong with people being worked in electronic sweatshops staring at a computer screen for longer than is good for them, while earning peanuts? I think you should reconsider your position.

Sagius Truthbarron · Nov 28, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

I took out my monk with zealots as my only weopon, they do sometimes run from it. If you fire it off once its no problem, but if you keep firing it off they seem to think its an AoE and run.

I have not tested this for about 2 weeks(after the 11th nov update), but was true at the time, and i have seen no updates since.

You're right. I just didn't test it enough. About 5 hits from it made them back away.

------------------------------------------------------

Usually, though, when they get hit by AoE they backup, then change targets. Which most of the time makes them run right back into the AoE.

I still take Orion with me and haven't had any problems. Even if he still uses Firestorm on dead bodies.

Perhaps I'm just not as observant enough, though.

They need to make adjustments to this, but not roll it back. I don't think many people here want that anyway.

Markaedw · Nov 28, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I think that the only way thius debate will be settled, is for ANET to just come out and say "This is how you will play the game!", this way those that don't want to play that way can stop wasting time and find anonther game right away. No more wasting time grinding to get that FoW armor or looking for that perfect damage item. ANET wont have to waste time constantly nerfing everything to try to get players to conform. Win-Win for everybody.

Me, I dont care, 3 weeks untill Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows